109337-rune-changes-part-5-rerolling-rune-elements
Content ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Please answer this question. | |} ---- Eh, the market will take care of that. And you can always join the Technologist master race yourself. :P | |} ---- ---- ---- Like all other high level crafting does already? I don't think you'd be doing people a favor with that... :unsure: | |} ---- ---- It will function similar to how crafting currently does. If you exit out of the process, when you reopen the crafting window it will return to where you left off. The key difference here is that the Abandon button will be greyed out. You cannot cancel out once the process has been started. So be sure you really, really don't want the original Rune Element. This has been clarified and updated in a more recent post. Edited August 21, 2014 by J-Tal | |} ---- Question: If the 2 elements I can choose are bad, can I cancel the process? | |} ---- Look one post above. :P (the answer is "no") | |} ---- ---- Actually it's 5, because you can't get the original element again. I think considering the big number of element/set/stat combinations that will be added, chances are big enough that you will get an acceptable element. This is a good solution if the flux items aren't too overpriced. | |} ---- You need to do your math again. | |} ---- There are 7 "elements" not 6. | |} ---- Crap, forgot about Fusion. I keep thinking in lore terms! There is no "primal fusion", so fusion doesn't exist as a Wildstar element in my mind! :P I'm sticking to the rest of my post though. New combos = more viable elements. | |} ---- ---- ---- Since the original element can't be selected as an option, and the other two are chosen without replacement, we can calculate the number of potential combinations to be 15 (6 choose 2). Of these 15, only 3 of them don't have an Assault Power rune. So you have an 80% chance of going from Water/Earth/Logic/Life to Air/Fusion/Fire. | |} ---- ---- ---- Oh probably 20 bloodbriar + 20 logic leaf + 20 goldleaf+ 20 glowmelon and you will have to hit a target the size of a single pixel...lol :P All joking aside I'm guessing it might end up in expert research... hopefully not another recipe that takes signs of fusion. | |} ---- ---- ---- Read the thread man | |} ---- This was answered: If you don't like them, no, you cannot go back to the original rune type. There is no undo or revert feature. You get one chance with mediocre odds to get something "better". That being said, I like the changes. | |} ---- ---- J-Tal said "Currently on schedule for the next major patch. This is, of course, subject to change should we feel the system is not ready and needs more work or polish before going live." | |} ---- ---- Please answer this, as a crafter I would like to improve my crafts before putting them on the market. | |} ---- ---- You mean like getting 4 earth slots on a dps chest piece? Thank you for making technologist worth something. | |} ---- | |} ---- ---- of course messing with items will soulbind it. anything else will lead to all sorts of abuse. j-tal already said you get 1 shot with zero takebacksies. or they would just chuck the entire element system. down the toilet. | |} ---- Thanks for your guess on 1), but you misunderstood my question 2). It's not about re-rolling a slot you already re-rolled. It's about re-rolling a slot you already USED, i.e. put a rune into. E.g.: My chest has a fire slot. I put a fire rune into it. Now, fire sucks for me, so I'd like to re-roll the slot. Can I still do that? So, by all means, submit your guess for 2) now. | |} ---- ---- I'm pretty sure J-Tal means you will be unable to reroll the Fire SLOT again, because that particular rune slot was already rerolled. It would make the rerolling almost pointless if you could never roll into an element type already on the item. | |} ---- ---- ---- Very nice. Its like you guys are doing something, where we are making sounds and you are giving your attention to those sounds. Whatever it is, it is appreciated. I don't know how I feel about that. It seems like it is shifting the cost of rerolling and adding on to the crafters, but the purchasers won't appreciate the resulting price hikes. This is very interesting, and is likely to prove to be a good move towards ensuring tradeskills have a place, even if its just to crank out Runic Elemental Flux mats. However, all these updates and unsolved design issues make me wonder if you were referring to drop 4 and not drop 3 in your earlier post about this being in the next major patch. | |} ---- ---- I just had a thought on this topic. If you are planning on this, such that crafters have more control over their final results, perhaps you should consider incorporating it into the circuit board crafting window. Let us spend charge, or additional mats, to influence the number of rune slots and the type of rune slots. Maybe instead of a mat or charge cost, each specific type of rune we add introduces a significant failure chance independent of the overcharge. The exact implementation is something that could be worked out, but the idea is that we are already fiddling with the stats in the circuit board crafting window, so it would be natural to also fiddle with the rune slots in that window instead of going to a separate interface for each item. | |} ---- if you let people fiddle with runes, you will be flooded with upset players demanding to reroll their item because some jerk took a shot at all fire slots and failed and tosses it at a sucker to try again. I mean there is a reason EVER OTHER MMO FORCES SOUL BINDING WHEN "ENCHANTING" GEAR. Dont be those guys that foul up basic Development practices also don't try to interconnect crafting skills. It never works out and always fails to prelase player or meaningfully enhance crafting.. Just find a combination of regents that aren't used excessively in a normal server economy and are reasonably difficult to acquire, without directly farming them. | |} ---- ---- Why not just add the original slot type to the two types rolled (giving the player three options instead of two), so the player can choose to keep the original slot just like in the above scenario, but it is more obvious that you "made your choice" and the slot is now locked. It's also one process instead of two processes to learn (the "cancel out of reroll to keep original" is not very intuitive and a lot of players will probably never figure out that you can do that). For clarity, make the dialog box contain the original rune type with a heading like "Keep this" and then present the two rolled rune types under the heading "Change to this". Or some other way to present equivalent info. | |} ---- If it doesn't become soulbound, then there does need to be some way people buying the item on the AH can see that they cannot reroll the runes anymore. Otherwise you'll get a lot of unhappy people. | |} ---- Well they could also make it so a rerolled slot looks slightly different from a fresh slot. I'm sure lots of people would still accidentally buy, but at least it would be somewhat their own fault. ;) | |} ---- Thanks for taking the time to answer. | |} ---- ---- ---- .... how did you not read any of theses threads, how | |} ---- ---- ---- Adding, Rerolling and Unlocking Rune Slots will bind the item to you. For consistency, pretty much all actions involving manipulating the Runes/Rune Slots on an item will bind the item to the player. Runic Elemental Flux requires one material from each other profession (Weaponsmith, Armorer, Tailor, and Outfitter) and is created by the Technologist. | |} ---- As a technologist who has been patiently awaiting our moment in the sun I'm disappointed to hear this. But I suppose I can't have everything I want, only 90% of it! The rest of the changes will be a welcome addition to the game. | |} ---- J-tal appreciate the update. Hopefully the mats for the Flux is something abundant so we don't see huge prices for these things :) | |} ---- How come on this the Architect was not included? While I admit being able to make a reagent as an Architect would be a little weird, at the same time everyone else can create at least 1 of the items they will need to give Technologists to make the Runic Elemental Flux, but Architects wont be able to help themselves, just have to buy all parts like Technologists except that at least they can make the end item themselves. When these changes go live, will all 4 crafted items and the Runic Elemental Flux be list-able on the AH/CX, were talking about a ton of tipping here if not...... | |} ---- WTF? I dropped Outfitter a while back because I don't play any medium wearing classes. Now you tell me it's needed for this?? WTF? | |} ---- ---- Is using a Dual Hybrid Power Core considered as "manipulating the Runes/Rune Slots on an item"? I guess not, but just in case... | |} ---- Its not like it would cost you anything to pick it up again, except perhaps the opportunity cost of dropping whatever you replaced it with. | |} ---- Well, I'm definitely not picking it up off who I dropped it on. That's my Mining/Armorer now. I might just do it on my double gatherer. Mining/Sruv. Drop Mining and pick up Outfitter. | |} ---- What else would it be if not those? Think about tailoring... if not Smart/Glamor cloth, what would it be? A bag? A glove/chest? I can't imagine it would be just starloom cloth, as that doesn't require anything to be "made". So yes, it will most certainly be those special cloth items, and feel incredibly sorry for anyone that needs Fusion Eldan signs for anything other than these, as the price on them is going to crush the commodities exchange. They obviously don't want the item to be so easy to obtain as to let everyone re-roll all their weak slots in the first few days, they want to keep you playing after all. It will be expensive enough that you want to use it on a close to best in slot item, and expensive enough that you might just decide to try to farm another of that item to save the time and money (IE get you back into the dungeon etc). Granted I have not stocked up on the vain hope they don't do this, but hey, we can always cross our fingers and hope it is some illogical combination of common items. | |} ---- ---- Those increased salvage drop rates for materials better seriously deliver... though I'm guessing they won't. <_< | |} ---- ---- They delivered me a couple Luminite-Hybrid Power Cores, from about 20 crafted weapons, so that was kinda silly. Not sure why I've been saving all of these data fragments when I can just get my luminite cores from salvaging for significantly cheaper. I'd really like to find out where people are getting the Runic Elemental Flux formula. Not that I doubt the mats, but because I want to see if the tier 7 talents can remove one of the mat costs. It would finally be a good reason to go double production tradeskill. | |} ---- Looks like Carbine is using the dartboard instead of the calculator again. Completely out of touch. I mean aside from ore/leather, omni-plasm and maybe the signs of logic ... there isn't one thing on that list that isn't already a sink. im actually shocked that they didn't just tack on 2-3 infused bones for good measure. so we have to rng our faces off to get the right signs from salvaging or farm 4% drop rate mobs for hours on end for an item that gives us a new rng rune slot. just make it cost 100 octopod or something.there are a lot of mats that are almost useless that you could choose to use to create these items .. but you go and slap on items that require materials that are already some of the highest demand items in the game .. | |} ---- ---- I really hope this is a joke!!! Really if they keep doing things like this more people will leave the game. A the current prices of Eldan Fusion Signs this itiem will cost at least 1 platinum to make and not considering the profits for the crafters, Even if the salvaging give twice as much of Eldan Fusion Signs the demand wil still be high and prices are not gonna drop considerably to make this affordable (less than 50g). Asking some1 to invest 1p or more into a RNG mechanic is just not fair neither useful!. Maybe I am just ranting (I certanly hope so) but if they go ahead with this a lot of people will be dissapointed. | |} ---- Yikes, I hope that's not intended. I'm already a bit disappointed with the technologist research, but the cores were the one part I thought was solid. If it turns out that they're easily obtained through salvaging, then there's basically nothing on the tree of value. (The gadgets were the biggest disappointment, though. I mean, the raid research gadget is Wings? Seriously?) | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Pretty much this. If they made the item cheap, I would reroll every single slot into Air/Fire/Fusion. As it is now, I'll just reroll Logic slots (literally every other slot is giving me Brut or AP so I'm happy with that.) 3 days ago I had 4 eldan signs of fusion in my bag, now I have 40. I would say I get 10/hour on average at the pells, that's not too bad. Currently I have enough for 5 logic slot rerolls and that's probably enough. Although once mega servers are here it's gonna be a pain to farm these Pell again :P Farm your fusions while you can! | |} ---- It wouldn't be so bad if the current gold sinks weren't so bad. A new piece of gear already costs a LOT of money to rune (depending on item lvl and number of slots of course). Say you get a chest piece out of GA w/ 3 slots. Thats already ~1.5 plat to unlock and rune if the slots are good. Adding on the significant cost of rerolling runes (if needed) and unlocking all rune slots (even more expensive) will make getting a new piece a huge sink now. While the biggest reward from raiding should be the achievement of overcoming encounters as a team, getting gear is a big reward too. Adding large costs to rewards takes away the enjoyment of even getting that reward. Instead of "sweet, a new piece! cant wait to rune it and use it", its gonna turn into "great....more money ive got to spend/farm". The idea of rerolling runes is a great way to fix the system w/ changing to much. But making the cost so high when it involves a supposed reward is stupid. Significant money sinks should never be attached to the usability of rewards. | |} ---- ---- ---- I agree to this. For example someone finds an epic BoE weapon and ALL its runes kinda suck. They suck so much that an overcharged crafted blue quality weapon with only 2 rune slots but good rune types have better power output. You're saying that if this certain someone failed rerolling all his slots after farming and buying all the mats needed to reroll a slot. That certain someone's 0.03% chance dropped weapon is completely useless? Please oh pretty please make the number of chances to reroll infinite or at least more than five times. | |} ---- As far as I know, given the new stats in each rune type, if you have a rune slot with a useless element, then you are guaranteed that at least one of the reroll options for that slot will provide either AP or main stat. So I don't know how you can fail rerolling a slot. | |} ---- Aren't there two "uninteresting" types? If you get one of them you still have a chance (14-17%) to get the other or am I missing something? | |} ---- In most cases there is only one "bad" slot, some classes/specs have two Before raiding this is not a problem at all. Worst case scenario you get the one bad one and you can't reroll same element so guaranteed good one Once your in raiding gear though it gets tricky, with the already higher stats and five slots per piece hitting that main stat soft cap of 1680(including food and boost) happens very quickly. At that point main stat drops to only being about 60% of straight AP and "good" slot types drops from six out of seven to three out of seven Also, there is rune sets to think about. When you factor in wanting to include 2+ sets and all of a sudden the elements that are right stat and right set starts to shrink options and you can't duplicate runes your starting to get into a territory where like 4 of the 5 slots need to specific elements for each piece of gear The underlying problem is there are very specific runes that are best for each class and once your past dungeons those are the only ones you want. Don't get me wrong, this is definitely a step in the right direction and does alleviate rune slot issues quite a lot. | |} ---- ---- You get two options, neither of which can be the original. So even if your class has two bad rune types, and some only have one, if you start from a bad option then the worst case is that one of your two choices is also bad. But the other choice will be a main stat or AP rune. | |} ---- What if I no longer need main stat? That makes that re roll useless and sub par. Did I miss a post where we can re roll a slot 5x times? | |} ---- "Useless" is pointless hyperbole, your main stat is still converting to AP even after milestones. You'll still get .61 AP per main stat. Considering the fact that you will only get 75% of the slot's points when it is filled with an AP rune, the difference isn't nearly as large as you are trying to make it out to be (81% vs the 60% Lunaria posted). | |} ---- ---- I agree with what you said dinwitt. If these were easier to obtain, then everyone would be maxed rune slots in less than a week. Also, gear obtained from raids (specially the orange gear) makes since the cost would be higher to rune (reroll). Yes, you worked your tail off to get that piece and it took alot of time to be able to even get into that raid to have the chance to get that item. So ofc the price to rune it will cost more than other items. Example, I have a Toyota that I want to invest in looking good and run faster/better. I would first have to go to different stores that specialize in certain items I want for those upgrades (different crafters). Secondly to get those items installed would obviously cost more as well. Now lets say I do all that exact same thing, but instead I do it on a Lamborghini or Bugatti. Well, duh, ofc all of that will obviously cost ton more to purchase and install then it did for the Toyota ;) With all that said, I am happy with the upcoming changes with exception to soulbinding the item once I pay to unlock it (currently it does not become soulbound when unlocking rune slots) and don't want it to become soulbound if I reroll/add rune slots. I think marking that rune slot with some form of information about it being rerolled to prospective purchasers would be best way to go. And if I would rather pay someone to do that for me (thinking of someone who has better luck with RNG then me lol), I should be able to. But, meh, it's not game breaking if they don't. | |} ---- I think you're missing something. These are the mats to reroll rune slots, not add. It is brilliant that their fix fix for RNG is to add expensive materials and more RNG. | |} ---- but its far less and if you do it correctly it will always be in your favor, to me these changes are perfect, you keep the value of getting perfect slotted drops in raids, you provide a way to make terrible slotted drops have more of a value to some people, you prevented the I win fix all button to give people a reason to look for gear upgrades. i dont think these changes are meant to min/max gear, they are to take that gear that has the worst possible first or second slot rune type and (being that it is the worst, nowhere to go but up) make it way better for you. | |} ---- QoL changes made to craft on PTR. Ýou get 4 pr.1 batch of craft now. Much more reasonable. | |} ---- ----